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The Death of the Editor


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#1 OFFLINE Game

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In 2005 Championship Manager fanboys were divided by a new franchise called Football Manager. These new FM fanboys took to the internet to express their love for the game by setting up fansites dedicated to providing discussion, tips and downloads for other FM fans. At this point the competition was so rife and the mentality so driven that you had numerous rival sites competing for your attention. Whilst this is still true today, fansites are ran with skewed mentality and it's this change which has lowered the bar of expectation and the standard of what is produced on the Scene.

It was how the vintage sites generated attention that set the bar exceedingly high for the latter generations of fansites and fansite owners. In the early years, until late 2007, you had a exceptional array of high quality mainsites littered with content, articles and discussion. This buzz was then transferred into forums where repeat visitors became members of the community and got to know each other, forming strong bonds with their respective sites.

Not unlike today, there was a lot of intense rivalry. It is this rivalry between fansites which has spawned a skewed mentality behind the scenes of these fansites and subsequently the following years had a rapid decline in standard. The enthusiasm at the older fansites either died off or the new generation of site owners completely misread the concept and dynamics of running a fansite. Everything had become about competition and people became obsessed with success, producing the best site for their members and being the centre of attention. This was always an undercurrent, even from day one but over time people began to associate success with popularity; member numbers, post numbers and hits became the central focus of the fansite and sacrificed everything to increase these meaningless digits.

Whilst this can be easily dismissed as opinion you have the ability to hit the Community button above where you will see for yourself that all but a handful of the English fansites are producing mainsite content and it appears that an even smaller amount actually focus on literature, guides or articles. We've become stuck in a world where templated player guides are being considered as quality content and the opinion of the editor has been lost in the forum, thus resulting in fansites either dabbling in a multitude of content types in a bid to good at everything (and executing it at a much poorer standard due to them being too thinly spread) or people heading off into the blogosphere to create their own homage to Football Manager.

Case and point below - the evolution of the Scene represented by two of the kings - Sortitoutsi and FM-Britain followed by the Scene today represented by The Away Stand and a few other sites.

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The first image is Sortitoutsi in 2005, then it was a site in it's peak; it provided new material almost every day at one point and it was always interesting reading. The second image is Sortitoutsi in 2006. Almost one year later it's become embrawled in the 'Scene Wars' - lots of petty fighting, even making the main page as news but the sites were still competing for the top spot via content and offerings to it's members and guests via the mainsite. The last image is almost four years on, today in fact. As you can see it's merely a beautiful holding page, which it's to remain as the site is now fully focussed on it's graphical roots - it's a shame that they're not utilising what is undoubtedly the best resource they have but it's understandable if they're to maintain the high quality production of graphics which they produce.


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As you can see above we have FM-Britain who I've followed along the same timeline. From day one FM-Britain have had direction and never lost it. They're the only site who produce content at the high standard they had on opening day and they're the only site who still focus on filling their canvas with literature. This for me, is the true measure of a fansite and it's success; it's not the most active forum in the world, it's a tight-knit community of old men in truth, but they're the epitome of a time when the editor called the shots and not the administrator.


Below is the new new Scene, an example of the changes which have slowly seeped in from the 2006 Scene Wars - the point in time which started the chain of events you saw in the Sortitoutsi timeline.

The Away Stand is a new site which is a great example to showcase this desperate for success mentality which has spiralled out of control since mid 2007.

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Looking above you will notice that The Away Stand have an active mainsite, if you've read above or visit their site you'll notice that 70% of their content is either player reviews or site news about the forums, awards or graphics (things that mean nothing to readers, only members). They do make articles on occasion but only a small majority of that content would hold up to the standard FM-Britain have been producing for years or sites like Throw-In, FM Old Timers and Susie used to produce on a very regular basis. If you actually look at the setup you can see that every single piece of mainsite content is linked into the forums, thus making the site nothing more than a portal - which is unfortunately what it's come to when you visit the vast majority of sites other than FM-Britain or FM-View.

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As seen above, the perfect example of what I'm saying. The page is filled to the maximum as soon as you open it, with a sales pitch designed to lure people into registering on the forum. They've completely failed to grasp that fansites are about mainsites and not forums, we'd call them fanforums otherwise. It's not just The Away Stand who fall victim to this desperate need for success; only concerned with the number of users they attract each day or networking their social media/Google rankings until they're at a point where the quality of the content no longer matters because an active forum at the top of Google will always be successfully perceived as being good.

Believe it or not, The Away Stand is probably one of the best examples of an active mainsite but sadly this mainsite is ran by forum administrators and not the editor/writer of the old Scene. It's not hard to understand that administrators want their forums active, it's the natural expectation and goal when you run a forum but this mentality is costing member's time as they're forced to examine content on forums (which should be used for commentary and discussion of the subject covered in the article) instead of an easy to read, to the point article hosted in an archived site. Sadly, it is nothing more than a desperate attempt at keeping visitors and members on-site and it's seriously affecting the quality or the quantity of material you can find on Football Manager subjects. It's an absolute nightmare having to scour a spam filled forum for accurate information on a subject. Still, they and the other sites guilty of the same stance, fail to see that it's hurting them more than aiding them - sure they're getting sign-ups but how many people would they get to their site if it practised in being more faithful to the content rather than the glory of running a bustling forum?

This is the major difference between the quality of sites in 2005/2006 and sites in the last 3 to 4 years. Sure it's not so different in terms of fighting, drama and discussion but it's the death of the editor which has really forced people to look elsewhere for information. People may sign up to forums but rarely does a newbie return and that's because they don't want to signup in the first place; but they're forced to because all this sacred FM information is housed in forums - in a desperate ploy to get more members and activity; which ironically is the one reason why people don't come back, because the forum doesn't have the information they want - because the site isn't ran by a man who's an editor, it's ran by an administrator who's information is hidden amongst tiers of useless posts and not showcased where everyone can have immediate access to it. Instead people end up heading to Google and that's when they see the blogosphere - home to the ousted editor.



Vintage Scene - home to the editor, blogging and discussion via a forum.

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Modern Scene - home to the administrator and a portal to the site forum.

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** exception to the generics of the modern Scene - home to a few vintage minded editors.

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Blogosphere - home to the outest editor.

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So to surmise my entire article, Vintage > *.

#2 OFFLINE Joel

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No mention of your beloved, maybe that's thankful.
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#3 OFFLINE Game

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View Postjoeleoleoleol, on 08 March 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

No mention of your beloved, maybe that's thankful.


LW or Fb?

I didn't mention LW because I couldn't prove my point with a screenshot. LW are no different in terms of mainsite content production than anyone else. However due to my insistance they have a new blog-style mainsite and a tonne of content that I wrote, suggesting that they provide the same kind of service that the likes of FM-B do and FM-V have done.

I can't say that they don't provide that because they have material on-site and it's fairly new but now that I've left it's up in the air if they will continue what I started, because Putzy, Matteh and the other staff aren't editors, they're administrators - Putzy is infact more accurately described as a developer more than anything else. Melmmer and Ali write occasionally, they have Lucas and a few others but they mightn't want to go down that route, so - LW is a waiting game and I can't make a judgement on it until I have something to backup my statement.

I didn't mention Fb, even though we're one of three sites who actually take an editorial approach to the site because I didn't want to create a biased piece.

#4 OFFLINE Joel

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View PostWonderkid, on 08 March 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:

View Postjoeleoleoleol, on 08 March 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

No mention of your beloved, maybe that's thankful.


LW or Fb?

I didn't mention LW because I couldn't prove my point with a screenshot. LW are no different in terms of mainsite content production than anyone else. However due to my insistance they have a new blog-style mainsite and a tonne of content that I wrote, suggesting that they provide the same kind of service that the likes of FM-B do and FM-V have done.

I can't say that they don't provide that because they have material on-site and it's fairly new but now that I've left it's up in the air if they will continue what I started, because Putzy, Matteh and the other staff aren't editors, they're administrators - Putzy is infact more accurately described as a developer more than anything else. Melmmer and Ali write occasionally, they have Lucas and a few others but they mightn't want to go down that route, so - LW is a waiting game and I can't make a judgement on it until I have something to backup my statement.

I didn't mention Fb, even though we're one of three sites who actually take an editorial approach to the site because I didn't want to create a biased piece.


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#5 OFFLINE Matt

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Pretty good read. Posted Image

#6 OFFLINE Game

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View PostMatt, on 08 March 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

Pretty good read. Posted Image


Thanks, appreciate that.

#7 OFFLINE Joel

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No +1 system here? Shame. Although I can see how it would distract from the sites aims and objectives.
'I get on with you though and you spout about half the amount of shite that I do.' - KM

#8 OFFLINE Game

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The reputation system is a waste of time to be honest. All it really symbolises is how often the button has been pressed. PLUS - it's my job to write this useless garbage ;)

#9 OFFLINE Joel

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^That^
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#10 OFFLINE Keith11

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very good Game, interesting read.

View PostRagey, on 28 April 2010 - 01:22 AM, said:

I usually dream about Polar Bears.


View PostAjax, on 06 May 2010 - 06:34 PM, said:

Being South African, Mantralux would probably have beat them to within an inch of their lives with a baton whether they had verbally abused her or not.


#11 OFFLINE Johno

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Took me a while to read it from start to finish :D Pretty good read :)

#12 OFFLINE Tubey84

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OK... I've got to comment on this, even though I probably shouldn't.

Whilst I appreciate you're starting a new site, and I also appreciate you don't like people on other sites, I see absolutely no reason to write this sort of rubbish which is basically an ill-disguised attempt at disparaging other websites.

Personally, that part of it doesn't really bother me. I can be described as utterly "anti-scene" and I'm definitely not a part of it.

However, I do contribute a good standard of articles that can't be described as... what was it...

Quote

They do make articles on occasion but only a small majority of that content would hold up to the standard FM-Britain have been producing for years or sites like Throw-In, FM Old Timers and Susie used to produce on a very regular basis.


By the way, "small majority" makes no sense! Anyway, I'd like to guide you to the following:

Emulating Reality

Star Combos

Analyse This

The Perfect Staff Room

Oh Captain, my Captain

The Ins and Outs of Player Tutoring


To name a few things. This is on a website that has been open for less than half a year. Which, by the way, are all posted on the main site with regularity; often within hours of it being posted on the forums. I really don't understand your point about mainsites given that, on TAS at least, every single article I've written is freely accessible on the mainsite.

I noticed that on a screenshot above you actually cut off the top part of the website which has five other articles! Why? You also don't mention the FM Global content etc. Again, why? Because it doesn't serve the agenda of the piece?

Editorial content direct from the editor (which this piece is) is alright, but not on its own by its very nature. I fail to understand how a new FM website can instantly criticize other forums for not having content when it has little content of its own!

If I were you, I'd concentrate on developing this website (which has absolute bags of potential) rather than bitching about others. It just doesn't come across right and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I'm posting this as an individual who is pretty annoyed at the blanket "laughing off" of content I and many others have taken hours to write just because you and the Admin at TAS have a problem with each other. If you're that interested in promoting content, perhaps you should take the time looking for deserving content to highlight to everyone who needs it regardless of what website that is on.

I'll stress, I happen to be a staff member on TAS - but I'd just as happily be a regular Joe, and that position doesn't influence this post one jot. I'm just saying this - if you were somebody browsing cyberspace for an FM website, would the first thing you read being a biased, slagging off of any website you happen to have a problem with give the right idea?

I really hope this site develops as it looks fantastic - but I'm fearful if the owner is filled with such vindictive fury rather than a personal desire to do the best he can.

#13 OFFLINE Superstar

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o/ @ Tubey.

Good write up Game, a fine non-biased opinion.

#14 OFFLINE Game

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View PostTubey84, on 09 March 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

OK... I've got to comment on this, even though I probably shouldn't.

Whilst I appreciate you're starting a new site, and I also appreciate you don't like people on other sites, I see absolutely no reason to write this sort of rubbish which is basically an ill-disguised attempt at disparaging other websites.

Personally, that part of it doesn't really bother me. I can be described as utterly "anti-scene" and I'm definitely not a part of it.

However, I do contribute a good standard of articles that can't be described as... what was it...

Quote

They do make articles on occasion but only a small majority of that content would hold up to the standard FM-Britain have been producing for years or sites like Throw-In, FM Old Timers and Susie used to produce on a very regular basis.


By the way, "small majority" makes no sense! Anyway, I'd like to guide you to the following:

Emulating Reality

Star Combos

Analyse This

The Perfect Staff Room

Oh Captain, my Captain

The Ins and Outs of Player Tutoring


To name a few things. This is on a website that has been open for less than half a year. Which, by the way, are all posted on the main site with regularity; often within hours of it being posted on the forums. I really don't understand your point about mainsites given that, on TAS at least, every single article I've written is freely accessible on the mainsite.

I noticed that on a screenshot above you actually cut off the top part of the website which has five other articles! Why? You also don't mention the FM Global content etc. Again, why? Because it doesn't serve the agenda of the piece?

Editorial content direct from the editor (which this piece is) is alright, but not on its own by its very nature. I fail to understand how a new FM website can instantly criticize other forums for not having content when it has little content of its own!

If I were you, I'd concentrate on developing this website (which has absolute bags of potential) rather than bitching about others. It just doesn't come across right and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I'm posting this as an individual who is pretty annoyed at the blanket "laughing off" of content I and many others have taken hours to write just because you and the Admin at TAS have a problem with each other. If you're that interested in promoting content, perhaps you should take the time looking for deserving content to highlight to everyone who needs it regardless of what website that is on.

I'll stress, I happen to be a staff member on TAS - but I'd just as happily be a regular Joe, and that position doesn't influence this post one jot. I'm just saying this - if you were somebody browsing cyberspace for an FM website, would the first thing you read being a biased, slagging off of any website you happen to have a problem with give the right idea?

I really hope this site develops as it looks fantastic - but I'm fearful if the owner is filled with such vindictive fury rather than a personal desire to do the best he can.


Firstly, this site is a scene portal. It's intent is to collect all types of reading material and on occasion items of interest and to bring them from all Scene sites onto the Fb featured page. These forums are for discussion and commentary on pieces from the Featured page. This isn't your generic community forum, which is the centre of the site - the site is the centre of our forum.

Secondly, to suggest that the article is a thinly veiled pot-shot at your site is ludicrous. I call it how I see it and you've referred me to six articles all of which are hosted on your forums - which actually backs up the point I was making; your site is a portal for your forum and not a mainsite of old.

To answer your questions promptly.

Quote

To name a few things. This is on a website that has been open for less than half a year. Which, by the way, are all posted on the main site with regularity; often within hours of it being posted on the forums. I really don't understand your point about mainsites given that, on TAS at least, every single article I've written is freely accessible on the mainsite.


If you read the piece you'd see that I stated TAS is updated regularly. What I also said, which is also true, is that the mainsite is a portal for the forum and your site ebbs around the forum rather than the mainsite - which is a typical attribute of the new Scene and the number one reason why editors have been replaced by administrators.


Quote

To name a few things. This is on a website that has been open for less than half a year. Which, by the way, are all posted on the main site with regularity; often within hours of it being posted on the forums. I really don't understand your point about mainsites given that, on TAS at least, every single article I've written is freely accessible on the mainsite.


I cut the headers out of all the screenshots to show the content. I can't make a point about content by merely showing your site banner and a block of screen which is about 400px in height with one piece of content on it.


Quote

Editorial content direct from the editor (which this piece is) is alright, but not on its own by its very nature. I fail to understand how a new FM website can instantly criticize other forums for not having content when it has little content of its own!



Maybe you've not fully browsed the site but the content to day (time we've been open) ratio is exceedingly high; especially since we're a site which is about quality and not quantity. We've multiple blogs, articles and guides. There are features and other pieces such as interviews - and whilst I'll concede that some of that work has translated from my Fb blog to this Fb site you need to grasp that everything around you from design to content falls on my shoulders - I'm a busy man, and given the amount of content we have here I'd be arrogant enough to suggest my workrate and production rate is one of the best on the Scene.

Quote

If I were you, I'd concentrate on developing this website (which has absolute bags of potential) rather than bitching about others. It just doesn't come across right and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I'm posting this as an individual who is pretty annoyed at the blanket "laughing off" of content I and many others have taken hours to write just because you and the Admin at TAS have a problem with each other. If you're that interested in promoting content, perhaps you should take the time looking for deserving content to highlight to everyone who needs it regardless of what website that is on.
I'll stress, I happen to be a staff member on TAS - but I'd just as happily be a regular Joe, and that position doesn't influence this post one jot. I'm just saying this - if you were somebody browsing cyberspace for an FM website, would the first thing you read being a biased, slagging off of any website you happen to have a problem with give the right idea?


I really hope this site develops as it looks fantastic - but I'm fearful if the owner is filled with such vindictive fury rather than a personal desire to do the best he can.



Let me be crystal clear on this point. I truly couldn't care less about your admins or staff. This site is a Scene portal and as such our focus is Scene material and FM material. The Away Stand was the perfect example to use in this article - I'd have used others but like I stressed in the piece, The Away Stand have one of the most active mainsites on the Scene and are a new site - who would be a better example to use?

If you look at the Fb mainsite you'd see I have an article by Steve and Littlefoxo online, it's linked directly to your site and I've even taken the time to add your site to the community section. This is still in place even though I've been completely mistreated by your site on two occasions, I've been banned for allegedly breaking rules (which let's face it, we all know is complete bullshit), I've had one of your site owners harass me on MSN and I've had members of your staff team and site suggest I'd tried to import them here as staff - all of this because I attempted to advertise this forum in your community area. You can surely see the irony of your statement given the actions the site you so honourably defend has acted in the most unscrupulous manner since it's conception and continues to do so - even if some members of the staff team aren't to blame.

Frankly if I wished to make you look bad I'd do it without highlighting your content or your good points. I'd most certainly not promote your site in the manner I've done so or will continue to do so. I'm afraid the voices in your staff room are merely echoing the same insecurities they've always done and you've unfortunately come here to express them.


The article as it stands is a fair and unbiased piece. If you highlight the main points you can't disagree that the site only cares about forum statistics and Google rankings. I made Los Wonderkids, I know the game better than they all do - so when I see the URL in the forum section headers I know it's for the purpose of Google - although any idiot could tell you the forums are your main priority - you have a 500px banner begging people to signup on every page.

*****

You're all more than welcome to come here and argue the toss, I encourage everyone's opinion but you should consider your points more carefully - if you remove the fact that I wrote it, you'd not have come here and said the majority of the things you did. I think you need to get to know me before you listen to the gossip from your staff room, generally speaking, if I was as wrapped up in the vengeance as was suggested I'd surely have blogged about the other issues that made up last week.

#15 OFFLINE Joel

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#16 OFFLINE Tubey84

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I don't even know who you are!

I didn't consult with any other "staff member" before writing this and I actually don't care about how this site, TAS, or any other website you care to mention is run. Literally don't care - I have no opinion on "the scene", I couldn't name you five prominent members on it and I couldn't even list you five prominent websites. I don't care that you were banned, unbanned, made patron saint of TAS, secretly planned 9/11... don't care.

To put it even more bluntly, TAS isn't my site - I'm a staff member and all I contribute is content. Your pronouncement that I'm some sort of White Knight sent on a glorious mission from the TAS staff room is nonsense. If you'd like me to prove it, I'll resign and become a Bronze Member on TAS and I wouldn't care in the slightest. I basically play FM, and post pieces of the internet based on how I play FM. That's it.

And it's on those grounds I'm objecting to this article. I'm posting as an individual on a piece that disparages the hard work of people who write things for the sole reason of helping FM players.

Just step back and see how that article looks to your average FM player who isn't "scene", like myself. All I see, reading that, is a retrospective arrogance that one approach is utterly right and one approach is utterly wrong, and the approach dictates how worthy the content is.

Tell me this - if those articles had been posted on this site, would that make them "better"? What difference does it make where the content is posted (even though, by the by, all the articles posted above have been posted in full exclusively on the mainsite too! I simply give the forum links as I was in that forum at the time.)

I'm not denouncing your abilities, although if I did it'd be water off a ducks back given your declaration that you "know the game" better than pretty much everyone! You're obviously talented - the website DOES look superb, I can see what you've done in a short space of time and I applaud it. And I DO hope it develops - they aren't empty words from a TAS "enforcer" signed up to "argue the toss" on here, I want this site to succeed as I think the mainsite look is simple and effective and I really like the pop-up stamps in the banner - the hard work is obvious.

I'm simply offering you a word of advice - you've posted something here that is very intro- and retrospective, very arrogant and very, very disparaging of everything that is posted under the "banner" of certain websites. It's uncalled for, and I hope this isn't the way things continue here because it isn't the right way to do things.

Once more, this isn't an attack - it's a urgent request to reconsider how and why you decide to criticize things when people have put hours upon hours of their time into certain pieces. If you want to be an FM portal, be an impartial portal.



#17 OFFLINE Superstar

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View PostTubey84, on 09 March 2010 - 05:07 PM, said:

I don't even know who you are!

I didn't consult with any other "staff member" before writing this and I actually don't care about how this site, TAS, or any other website you care to mention is run. Literally don't care - I have no opinion on "the scene", I couldn't name you five prominent members on it and I couldn't even list you five prominent websites. I don't care that you were banned, unbanned, made patron saint of TAS, secretly planned 9/11... don't care.

To put it even more bluntly, TAS isn't my site - I'm a staff member and all I contribute is content. Your pronouncement that I'm some sort of White Knight sent on a glorious mission from the TAS staff room is nonsense. If you'd like me to prove it, I'll resign and become a Bronze Member on TAS and I wouldn't care in the slightest. I basically play FM, and post pieces of the internet based on how I play FM. That's it.

And it's on those grounds I'm objecting to this article. I'm posting as an individual on a piece that disparages the hard work of people who write things for the sole reason of helping FM players.

Just step back and see how that article looks to your average FM player who isn't "scene", like myself. All I see, reading that, is a retrospective arrogance that one approach is utterly right and one approach is utterly wrong, and the approach dictates how worthy the content is.

Tell me this - if those articles had been posted on this site, would that make them "better"? What difference does it make where the content is posted (even though, by the by, all the articles posted above have been posted in full exclusively on the mainsite too! I simply give the forum links as I was in that forum at the time.)

I'm not denouncing your abilities, although if I did it'd be water off a ducks back given your declaration that you "know the game" better than pretty much everyone! You're obviously talented - the website DOES look superb, I can see what you've done in a short space of time and I applaud it. And I DO hope it develops - they aren't empty words from a TAS "enforcer" signed up to "argue the toss" on here, I want this site to succeed as I think the mainsite look is simple and effective and I really like the pop-up stamps in the banner - the hard work is obvious.

I'm simply offering you a word of advice - you've posted something here that is very intro- and retrospective, very arrogant and very, very disparaging of everything that is posted under the "banner" of certain websites. It's uncalled for, and I hope this isn't the way things continue here because it isn't the right way to do things.

Once more, this isn't an attack - it's a urgent request to reconsider how and why you decide to criticize things when people have put hours upon hours of their time into certain pieces. If you want to be an FM portal, be an impartial portal.





GTFO. o/

#18 OFFLINE Tubey84

    Star man? Not so much.

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View Post.pachee, on 09 March 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

GTFO. o/


Hmm... I see I'm wasting my time...

Okeydokey. I'll be off - but I will say this. The look of this website is genuinely top class and I really do wish you well with it. (This is where I'd put a "thumb up" smiley, but it seems to be missing from the list or I've gone blind!)

#19 OFFLINE Superstar

    Third time's rape

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View PostTubey84, on 09 March 2010 - 05:16 PM, said:

View Post.pachee, on 09 March 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

GTFO. o/


Hmm... I see I'm wasting my time...

Okeydokey. I'll be off - but I will say this. The look of this website is genuinely top class and I really do wish you well with it. (This is where I'd put a "thumb up" smiley, but it seems to be missing from the list or I've gone blind!)


Blind for sure, bye.

#20 OFFLINE Joel

    On a roll..

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