96 replies to this topic

[Crackfox]

I've always been a zonal marking guy but I gave man marking a go and it really seems to work. I guess 2 of my cb's are man amrking the two attackers and the third is covering any balls over the top. Seems to work at the minute

[Validicus]

The 3-4-3 is more adventurous than it sounds. Think of a 5-3-2/3-5-2 where the "extra" central midfielder is deployed higher up the pitch and that's the system in a nut shell. The defensive shape is ultimately a 5-2-3, but despite it being a back 5 during the defensive phase, it's important to constantly be aware of the fact that it's just 1 player defending each flank. Against a team which utilises attacking wingbacks, it makes a 3-4-3 just as easy to overlap on the flanks as a 3-5-2. A 3-5-2 floods the middle in a similar way to the central midfield of a 4-5-1 though, so it can still be difficult to break down. The same can't be said of a 3-4-3 since, as already mentioned, the 3v2 (3 CMs vs 2 CMs) situation is sacrificed for an extra forward instead.

As for its perks, it's though the middle where a 3-4-3 can be at its most dangerous, especially against a 4-4-2. The most central striker should be a supporting player, operating in the hole where he's difficult to defend against. Even if he's picked up, that either frees up an emerging CM, or allows for one of the two strike partners to be played into space - a deadly scenario either way.

In order to get the best out of such a system, the wide-men / wingbacks need to be very fit and well-rounded, if not exceptional for their level. This is due to the fact that they are required to bomb up and down the flanks. In particular, they are required to defend your flanks - of which takes precedence over attacking. The CBs remain in the central zone, so it's the wide-men / wingbacks who have to pick up the runs of opposition wingers. For the stability of a 3/5 at the back system, this defensive behaviour takes priority over the wide-men / wingback's attacking responsibilities, thus dictating that their own runs going forward are prolonged. They should be able to join the attacking phase in time to contribute to it, though. They just shouldn't be expected to provide anywhere near as much wide-play as the wingers of a 4-5-1/4-3-3, or even a flat 4-4-2 for that matter.

Just as is the case with a 3-5-2, the 3-4-3 struggles greatly against 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 variants, even more so than the 3-5-2, actually. The 3 CBs are left to mark 1 striker, so 1 of them is "spare" and contributing precious little. Meanwhile, the 3-4-3 is outnumbered 2v3 in central midfield. It's one thing not being able to mark opposition wingbacks of any other formation, but at least against a 4-4-2 there are the two numbers advantages in the middle to make up for it. Simply put, both advantages are nerfed against a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 variant.

Edited by Validicus, 15 July 2011 - 09:59 PM.

[Crackfox]

I'm getting torn apart away from home. Any tips on what to change to avoid it

[Corlett]

I've been looking at the feedback from my assistant during most games and he always seems to say about the massive gap between my midfield and attack, I've tried lots of different solution but none of them seem to be working so I'm thinking of setting my midfield up like this, instead of a flat 4.

AMCl --------
ML - ------ - MCr - MR

The AMC will still be an advanced playmaker but hopefully the move a further up field will link the play between the midfield and attack better.

[Yellowforever]

Corlett, on 16 July 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

I've been looking at the feedback from my assistant during most games and he always seems to say about the massive gap between my midfield and attack

I had that exact problem. I cheated and dropped one of the strikers down to AMC, but it still wasn't anything amazing. Finding it difficult to do well with this particular one.

I thought I'd give it a trial with Liverpool, I signed Vargas for the left wing, Lacina Traore as a backup target man and Christian Benitez. Got this young CB on loan as well as a backup and played;

Carroll Suarez Benitez

Vargas Meireles Gerrard Johnson

Carragher Agger Skrtel

Reina

Johnson and Vargas both basically played as wing backs, tracking back and bombing forward equally, but generally protecting the wings. This allowed Gerrard to get foward a bit more and Meireles just behind him and play a fairly narrow game. Suarez was deep lying, Carroll target man, Benitez poacher.

[Corlett]

Went and dominated the Ukrainian league with this. These we're my league results:

And the Champions League results:

All in all a very successful tactic which is strong in both attack and defence.

Here's the setup and the players used:

Poacher - DLF - Trequartista
A. Playmaker ---------------
Wide Mid --------------- Ball Winning - Wide Mid
Central Def - Central Def
Sweeper
GK

Philosophy - Very Fluid
Strategy - Control

Passing - Default
Creative Freedom - More expressive
Closing Down - Default
Tackling - Default
Marking - Zonal
Crossing - Drill
Roaming - More roaming

[Sears]

^^

One of the most unusual tactics I've ever seen.

[Jackk!]

Sears, on 18 July 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

^^

One of the most unusual tactics I've ever seen.

Not if you look at them as individual positions

Defence is slightly unusual but it is used.

That was commonly used midfield in FM10, and up top its pretty usual to see 3 up top. It just depends on the transition between the positions.

[djzdravko]

When I lead the Bayern Munich on Footbal manager and use 3-4-3 system the team look like this:

GK: Neuer (Sweeper keeper _ defend)
CDR: Boateng (Central defender - defend)
CD: Breno (Central defender - defend)
CDL: Badstuber (Central defender - defend)
WBR: Rafinha (Wing back -attack)
MCR: Schweinsteiger (deeplying playmaker - support)
MCL: Kroos (advanced playmaker - support)
WBL: Lahm (Wing back -attack)
AMR: Robben (Inside forward - attack)
AML: Ribery (Inside forward - attack)
ST: Gomez (Target man - attack)

I won the league and cup without a problem in the first season and in the Champions League reached the semi-finals.

I think if you play with 3 central strikers your wide midfielders need to cover all space on the flanks and need very much energy to do that. When defending in that way your MR/ML become DR/DL and than your two central midfielders need to cover all space in midfield because ME push your MRL to create back five.

I like this system but on FM you can't get what in real life the system provides.

Because of that I use Wing backs and Wingers to support each other and stretch opponents defence!

Edited by djzdravko, 03 December 2011 - 07:03 PM.

[Sheriff Skacel]

This thread was positively banging. Anyone interested in something similar with a Sweeper concept?

Why we should;

1. It makes FM interesting
2. Its more flexible than the 3-4-3 as the only requirement is a sweeper, so you can have any formation
3. It makes you think more about tactics
4. We'd all be chasing the same thing but at different ends of the football spectrum, DISCUSSION.
5. It makes FM interesting

[Corlett]

Haven't played FM at all this year, I'm up for something like this to get me into the swing of things.

[Sheriff Skacel]

That's all I need.

[Nando]

I'm up for something like this.

Would you recommend using someone who can play sweeper or just sticking a normal DC there and retraining him?

[Sheriff Skacel]

Well I'm playing the sweeper as a libero. So I'm chasing the Korean version of De Rossi or maybe even Pirlo.

Korean De Rossi = Quality defensively and quality passing
Korean Pirlo = Quality positioning and quality passing

So I'm looking to retrain players and I think that's the best way to go.

[Nando]

Considering you're doing this at the bottom end, I might load up a new game and see if I can retain the WC with Italy. I like the idea of De Rossi at sweeper, he's competent at everything.

[Crane]

Problem is with being a national manager, you can't retrain him.

[Nando]

Shouldn't matter too much, his attributes should be good enough to play sweeper.